Individual

Go to List of Family Names Go to List of People < Previous Next >

____ Raymond III
Birth:          ABT  942 

Notes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_III,_Count_of_Toulouse
Raymond III is the designation assigned to distinct or possibly-distinct Counts of 
Toulouse in the mid-to-late 10th century. Recent scholarship has overturned the 
traditional account of the counts during this period without consensus arising for a 
new reconstruction.
Traditional reconstruction[edit]

Until recently, Raymond III was the numerical designation assigned Raymond Pons, 
Count of Toulouse, who seems to have succeeded his father as count before 926, and 
who is last seen in 944, apparently being dead by 969. In that year his widow 
Garsenda appears, acting alone. It was thought that she then acted as guardian for 
Raymond's successor and (supposed) son, William III, Count of Toulouse, who 
appears along with his wife Emma in the early 11th century. This reconstruction was 
not without problems. Not only was the chronology of this single generation long, but it 
is at odds with a surviving contemporary source, the Códice de Roda. The surviving 
manuscript of this collection of genealogies is of a later date, but is thought to derive 
from a 10th-century original. In its account of the Counts of Toulouse, it shows 
Garsenda, daughter of García II Sánchez of Gascony, to have married (Raymond) 
Pons, having by him one son, Raymond, who in turn is given children Hugh and 
Raymond. William (III) is not mentioned. Likewise, the will of Garsenda fails to name 
William.

Reevaluation[edit]

This consensus reconstruction was shown to be flawed by the discovery of a 992 
charter of William III and his wife Emma which explicitly named William's mother as the 
still-living 'Adelaix'. While this document shows that William was not son of Raymond 
Pons and Garsenda, it does little to illuminate the true relationships, and several 
scholars have proposed alternative solutions. These are in agreement with regard to 
the identity of William's mother. She is identified with Adelaide of Anjou, who as widow 
of the deceased Raymond of Gothia, married to Louis V, King of France, divorcing him 
two years later and remarrying William III of Provence. Her husband, the 'Prince of 
Gothia', had previously gone unrecognized or had been dismissed as inaccurate, but 
given the historical association of this title with the County of Toulouse, the 
identification of William's mother with Adelaide of Anjou is now accepted. This means 
that William's father was a previously unrecognized Count Raymond of Toulouse, but 
his relationship to the previous documented count, Raymond Pons, remains a matter of 
debate, with several competing theories being proposed.

Reconstruction 1[edit]

Thierry Stasser identified Adelaide's husband with the last-named family member 
appearing in the Roda pedigree, the brother of Hugh, both sons of an earlier Raymond 
and grandsons of Raymond Pons and Garsenda. This Stasser harmonized with the will 
of Garsenda, in which she names her nepotes (grandsons or nephews) Hugh and 
Raymond, children of Guidinilda. He would thus introduce two generations, both 
named Raymond, between Raymond Pons and William III. The first would be the 
husband of Guidinilda and the father of Hugh and Raymond, with the latter in turn 
being the husband of Adelaide and father of William III. Given that Garsenda referred 
to Hugh and Raymond only by the names of their mother, it may be that the elder of 
the new Raymonds had likewise died by 969. The addition of as many as three 
additional counts (Raymond, Hugh and Raymond) would displace the numbering of all 
subsequent counts named Raymond.

Stasser reconstruction of 10th century Toulouse counts
    Raymond Pons
 Count of Toulouse md Garsenda 
child:  Raymond (III)  Count of Toulouse md  Guidinildis 
child: Hugh, and Raymond (IV) Count of Toulouse md Adelaide of Anjou  
 child of Raymond IV:  William III  Count of Toulouse 
Reconstruction 2[edit]

Martin de Framond suggested two alternatives, the first of which introduced just one 
intervening generation. He suggests that Raymond Pons and Garsenda were 
succeeded by a son Raymond, who as in the Codice de Roda had sons Hugh and 
Raymond, but that as widower of Guidinilda he subsequently married Adelaide, having 
younger son but eventual heir William. The addition of just a single additional count 
Raymond in this reconstruction has allowed the traditional numbering to be massaged - 
some subsequent compilers have used the byname to distinguish Raymond Pons, and 
then referred to the subsequent novel count as Raymond III, without changing the 
traditional numbering of subsequent counts of that name.

First Framond reconstruction of 10th century Toulouse counts
     Raymond Pons Count of Toulouse  md Garsenda 
 Child Raymond (III) Count of Toulouse, md Guidinildis, children Raymond and Hugh, 
also md Adelaide of Anjoy, child William III Count of Toulouse 

Reconstruction 3[edit]

In his second reconstruction, Martin de Framond placed more weight on the will of 
Garsenda, which could be read as implying that she left no children. He suggests that 
the nepotes Hugh and Raymond were children of Raymond II, Count of Rouergue, the 
nephew of Raymond Pons and his heir-male were he to die without sons. He suggests 
that Raymond of Rouergue may have succeeded his uncle as Count of Toulouse, and 
that the husband of Adelaide was son of this count, a like-named half-brother to 
Raymond III of Rouergue.
Second Framond reconstruction of 10th century Toulouse counts
Raymond Pons who md Garsenda is brother of Ermengol Count of Rouergue
child of Ermengol is Raymond II/(III) Count of Rouergue and Toulouse, md Bertha of 
Tuscany had child Raymond III Count of Rouergue, and md Guidinildis, had children 
Hugh and Raymond(IV) Count of Toulouse, who md Adelaide of Anjou and had child 
William III Count of Toulouse
Given the lack of consensus over these possible reconstructions, the name Raymond 
III, originally referring to Raymond Pons, is now ambiguous. It can still refer to 
Raymond Pons, to a hypothesized son who married successively Guidinilda and 
Adelaide of Anjou, to a hypothesized son who was husband of Guidinilda and father-
in-law of Adelaide, or to Raymond II, Count of Rouergue. No consensus has arisen 
regarding these alternative reconstructions, nor on how previous hypotheses 
identifying possible siblings of William III fit into these new rearranged pedigrees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulk_Bertrand_of_Provence

Parents
PONS Raymond III (ABT  900 - )
OF GASCONY Gersende (ABT  900 - )

Siblings
OF TOULOUSE Adelheid (ABT  940 - AFT  977)
____ Raymond III (ABT  942 - )
DE TOULOUSE Luitgarde (ABT  945 - AFT  977)

Marriage To D'ANJOU Adelaide (Blanche) (ABT 942 - 1026) m. 975 Notes Parents ____ Fulk (Foulques) II "the Good" (ABT 905 - 11 Nov 960) OF GASTINOIS Gerberge (ABT 913 - 952) Children by D'ANJOU Adelaide (Blanche) ABT 942 - 1026
TAILLEFER William (Guillaume) III (ABT 976 - Sep 1037) ____ Bertrand (ABT 977 - )
Produced by Fzip 1.7 6/20/2017